Following this post is easier if one reads the previous two posts.
Was KCo trying to achieve a similar rebirth with HM Basic? A rebirth of the true old school? An innovation instead of a renovation? Gary Jackson, now returned, issues 5e billing it as what 4e was supposed to be. The very thing HM4e may have already achieved, but was lost due to copyright issues? Well, they haven't been _that_ forthcoming over at KCo, and probably for good reason (again copyright and all that). They have admitted to designing the game the way they would have wanted to play it. And you can't fault them for that.
But they changed the basic engine and that was a _big_ gamble. It was, in fact what lost it for me. It might have been better if 5e had been redesigned utilizing the SRD/OGL. They could have achieved something more like Joseph Goodman's Dungeon crawl Classic RPG which shows awesome promise (but that's for another post).
All of which leaves me wondering if HM4e couldn't be resurrected using OSRIC as a framework. That way they preserve the engine and are able to continue to support what 4e was all about. I must admit, I'm not sure about all the legalities on that. Exactly how much of 4e did WoTC "own" by the license under which KCo operated? To avoid the whole mess they retooled everything. But I'm afraid they threw may have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Even thought the legal mess might have been ugly it would have been worth it to create something truer to form.
Oddly the parody which was the supposed "inspiration" of 4e was transformed at the outset by KCo into a redesign of 2e with some powerful old school house rules thrown in. And this effort was a resounding success. One of the few outside companies that actually improved the game we all knew and loved.
Many have argued that they were only able to pull it off because WoTC gave them license and carte blanche to do whatever they wanted with the original text of 1e/2e. And thus no one can now repeat what they did because they don't have similar legal freedom. But OSRIC exists as a framework and KCo has proven they can retain the spirit and attitude of the game, as they have done so with HMb. They didn't _have_ to change the basic engine.
Which of course makes me wonder -- could anyone public domain HM4e using OSRIC. 'course to truly do so there are lots of proprietary stuff related to KODT that KCo wouldn't want snarfed up. The mechanical stuff like crits and honor and the like could be emulated however. In the end it would likely have to be KCo that led the project. Which brings us right back to legal wranglings at the commercial level.
'Course individuals could OSRIC HM4e without going public, for their own devices as it were. Running their own campaigns using HM books as source and OSRIC as the active engine. Still, that's not the same and I lament the commercial loss of yet another awesome game.
Saturday, June 18, 2011
Monday, June 13, 2011
OSR Central & an OGL Hackmaster? II
The OSR movement has two camps. The Original camp which takes its rules structure from the original Dungeons and Dragons of 1974, and the d20 camp which came after. Any reliance on the OGL by the Original camp is due simply to the fact that they must for purposes of copyright. The boundaries of the Original camp is set by the early exposition of the official TSR rules. and the OSR usually tries to create as accurately as possible the rule structure of the actual rules published by TSR. The delineation of the Original camp is something like what follows:
The Original Camp
Original Dungeons & Dragons: Swords and Wizardry
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (1e): OSRIC
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (2e):
Hackmaster 4e
Holmes/Basic/Expert/Companion/Master/Immortal/Rules Cyclopedia: Dark Dungeons
The d20 Camp
d20 and variants
Dungeons & Dragons 3e/3.5
OGL
Pathfinder
Basic Fantasy Role Playing Games
Castles & Crusades
Dungeons & Dragons 4e
Not a complete list, but you get the idea. And the reason for setting them up this way is delineate a difference in design from the two camps. The d20 camp relies heavily on the d20 system for game structure. While not necessarily rules lite they favor a single mechanic to govern most play and a universalism over specific technical rules. This concept has developed since WoTC took over D&D and has infiltrated the OSR.
While on the surface this is not a "bad" thing it has done something unpleasant to the tone of OSR playing. The idea that OSR implies rules light roleplaying. This is a basic flaw in thinking. Sure the Original edition was rules light in the sense that there weren't many rules, but rules light wasn't the "goal" of those early editions. And yes, the Original edition supported a certain type of play that was fast and lose exactly because there were not rules to cover every situation. But as anyone who has played Oe or S&W knows you _will_ be house ruling _lots_.
And that is the Advanced edition's logic. Gary realized that the early game was "barely there". Oe was a quick attempt to get the rules out there and sell them. 1e was Gary's attempt to implement fixes for the "holes" in the rules; to expand and unify the game into a more cohesive and complete whole. Some have called 1e Gary's house rules, and that may in a sense be true--but they were more than that. Though lots of house rules were play tested at early TSR, the ones that made it into 1e were the ones that early play testers felt contributed to play. There was no attempt to unify the game under a single mechanic. In fact I think we are naive if we think such discussions were not held at Gary's design meetings. Why not implement something like THAC0? These ideas were early on debated and discussed, but they didn't make the cut. Unified mechanics were nor a part of the game. And Gary made it clear that you start screwing with the structure of the system you will change the game.
By 2e Gary was largely out of the picture, and the game took a direction he was not entirely pleased with. And it's true 2e played a little differently from 1e. In my experience proficiencies changed the landscape of play more than any other single mechanic. And Gary himself made it clear he wasn't entirely pleased with the way they played in the game as is. He was in favor of a greatly revamped skill system that he only had the chance to envision once he put out LA. He also made it clear, however, that LA was not the lost 2e Gary would have created. By then he had been forced to move beyond D&D and his focus and effort where elsewhere.
That in my opinion is where Hackmaster tried to step in and save the day. Initially commissioned as a parody of the game to fill the demand of the readers of KODT, the design team quickly realized they had a golden opportunity. They could create a game that was the real deal while also preserving the spirit that permeated KODT. And that spirit was born out of the early days of TSR, the ones I mentioned in the last blog post. What they managed to achieve was to design a game that cut the difference between 1e and 2e and cemented the "feel" of those early days that is so well illustrated in KODT.
Whether Kenzerco realized it or not D&D was on the way to a monumental change in the late '90s that would divide the game into two distinct camps. The takeover by WoTC shifted the game to something different entirely. They gutted the game and rewrite it with the d20 engine. And as Gary had so long prophesied the spirit of the game changed, dramatically. 3.5, the final version of their first attempt, created something that while very playable and innovative in it's own right was most decidedly NOT the game we were all used to. The backlash was intense, but most of the gaming world made the shift and by 2005 D&D was largely 3.5. So much so that some gamers knew nothing else but 3.5 The d20 camp and its ideology had been fully established.
Now let's head back to the Original camp, and consider two very unique presentations of the rules. Note that the Rules Cyclopedia/Dark Dungeons and Hackmaster occupy a unique location on the spectrum of game development. The Rules Cyclopedia/Dark Dungeons really takes the Basic & Expert rules and extends and expands upon them so much that it almost equals 1e in basic technicality and not quite 2e in options.
Hackmaster on the other hand is a synthesis of 1e and 2e. While not actually Gary Gygax's missing second edition it addresses the complaints of 2e, "re-1st-e-ing"the game while preserving several popular 1e concepts/variants. Hence many call it what 3e should have been: a fix for what was broken or divergent in 2e and an advancement of the spirit of 1e. Hackmaster took the game in the direction it had been meant to go at that time.
The Original Camp
Original Dungeons & Dragons: Swords and Wizardry
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (1e): OSRIC
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (2e):
Hackmaster 4e
Holmes/Basic/Expert/Companion/Master/Immortal/Rules Cyclopedia: Dark Dungeons
The d20 Camp
d20 and variants
Dungeons & Dragons 3e/3.5
OGL
Pathfinder
Basic Fantasy Role Playing Games
Castles & Crusades
Dungeons & Dragons 4e
Not a complete list, but you get the idea. And the reason for setting them up this way is delineate a difference in design from the two camps. The d20 camp relies heavily on the d20 system for game structure. While not necessarily rules lite they favor a single mechanic to govern most play and a universalism over specific technical rules. This concept has developed since WoTC took over D&D and has infiltrated the OSR.
While on the surface this is not a "bad" thing it has done something unpleasant to the tone of OSR playing. The idea that OSR implies rules light roleplaying. This is a basic flaw in thinking. Sure the Original edition was rules light in the sense that there weren't many rules, but rules light wasn't the "goal" of those early editions. And yes, the Original edition supported a certain type of play that was fast and lose exactly because there were not rules to cover every situation. But as anyone who has played Oe or S&W knows you _will_ be house ruling _lots_.
And that is the Advanced edition's logic. Gary realized that the early game was "barely there". Oe was a quick attempt to get the rules out there and sell them. 1e was Gary's attempt to implement fixes for the "holes" in the rules; to expand and unify the game into a more cohesive and complete whole. Some have called 1e Gary's house rules, and that may in a sense be true--but they were more than that. Though lots of house rules were play tested at early TSR, the ones that made it into 1e were the ones that early play testers felt contributed to play. There was no attempt to unify the game under a single mechanic. In fact I think we are naive if we think such discussions were not held at Gary's design meetings. Why not implement something like THAC0? These ideas were early on debated and discussed, but they didn't make the cut. Unified mechanics were nor a part of the game. And Gary made it clear that you start screwing with the structure of the system you will change the game.
By 2e Gary was largely out of the picture, and the game took a direction he was not entirely pleased with. And it's true 2e played a little differently from 1e. In my experience proficiencies changed the landscape of play more than any other single mechanic. And Gary himself made it clear he wasn't entirely pleased with the way they played in the game as is. He was in favor of a greatly revamped skill system that he only had the chance to envision once he put out LA. He also made it clear, however, that LA was not the lost 2e Gary would have created. By then he had been forced to move beyond D&D and his focus and effort where elsewhere.
That in my opinion is where Hackmaster tried to step in and save the day. Initially commissioned as a parody of the game to fill the demand of the readers of KODT, the design team quickly realized they had a golden opportunity. They could create a game that was the real deal while also preserving the spirit that permeated KODT. And that spirit was born out of the early days of TSR, the ones I mentioned in the last blog post. What they managed to achieve was to design a game that cut the difference between 1e and 2e and cemented the "feel" of those early days that is so well illustrated in KODT.
Whether Kenzerco realized it or not D&D was on the way to a monumental change in the late '90s that would divide the game into two distinct camps. The takeover by WoTC shifted the game to something different entirely. They gutted the game and rewrite it with the d20 engine. And as Gary had so long prophesied the spirit of the game changed, dramatically. 3.5, the final version of their first attempt, created something that while very playable and innovative in it's own right was most decidedly NOT the game we were all used to. The backlash was intense, but most of the gaming world made the shift and by 2005 D&D was largely 3.5. So much so that some gamers knew nothing else but 3.5 The d20 camp and its ideology had been fully established.
Now let's head back to the Original camp, and consider two very unique presentations of the rules. Note that the Rules Cyclopedia/Dark Dungeons and Hackmaster occupy a unique location on the spectrum of game development. The Rules Cyclopedia/Dark Dungeons really takes the Basic & Expert rules and extends and expands upon them so much that it almost equals 1e in basic technicality and not quite 2e in options.
Hackmaster on the other hand is a synthesis of 1e and 2e. While not actually Gary Gygax's missing second edition it addresses the complaints of 2e, "re-1st-e-ing"the game while preserving several popular 1e concepts/variants. Hence many call it what 3e should have been: a fix for what was broken or divergent in 2e and an advancement of the spirit of 1e. Hackmaster took the game in the direction it had been meant to go at that time.
Monday, June 6, 2011
OSR Central & an OGL Hackmaster? I
I've been through the edition/system debate many times before, but it seems I always revisit it. And to be truthful this same thing used to happen to me on a lesser level as a gaming teen. I was excited to pick up the latest game at my FLGS again and again. I bought Champions, before it was Hero, Gamma World, Space Opera, Star Frontiers and more and tried to get my gaming buddies excited, but either they weren't interested, I never followed through, or we lost interest collectively.
AD&D was our game of choice, our foundation. Second edition came out post graduation and because several of us, myself included, joined the military right after school 2e never gained much traction with our group. We added ideas and created house rules from 2e, but never really played a straight 2e game. But to be honest, during this early post adolescence our gaming was weak to say the least. So for us gaming was always heavily house ruled and improvised AD&D 1e.
And back then, though the RPGA, conventions, tournament play and official TSR gaming sanction existed we involved ourselves little with all that. It was nice to know, however, that it was out there. It lent a sense of expansiveness and greater possibility to the gaming scene. We knew that we _could_ choose to get involved if we at some time felt disposed to. And as I look book now, I can see that we were not "ready" for that level. In Gary Gygax's book Role-Playing Mastery he delineates several levels of "mastery" of the game. Levels 14 to 17 he describes as follows
14. Play outside your groups campaigns frequently
15. Play in tournaments
16. Make yourself aware of the gaming community and contribute to it
17. Continue to learn and grow even after you achieve mastery
We had attained a rather respectable level of game mastery, but never really took it to the next level, in this case #14.
In the '80's and '90s AD&D and TSR reigned supreme. Even as TSR was hurtling towards bankruptcy the gaming community saw gaming as TSR. There were other games on the mamrket to be sure, and some were becoming quite big. The biggest contender of the time was probably GURPS from SJ Games. But the AD&D experience _was_ gaming.
And I suppose that, more than anything else, is why I love KODT so much. It places itself in a setting where one game reigns supreme as the shared world of 90% of the gaming community. Was this an illusion then? Am I nostalgic to the point of not seeing the reality that was? Is this description I've given some mythical Camelot of gaming never to be regained, exactly because it never was?
Or is there something to this feeling that seems to strike some chord within my heart and soul? And if such a chord can be struck does it not hint at some magic that can be regained, attained and experienced again? Is it not real if I can respond to it in my heart and soul? And even moreso if others can feel the same thing. And the entire OSR community shows that there was something in the past worth retaining.
I wonder if it can be rebuilt among the longtime steadfast games of AD&D who today live in the realms of the OSR. We could create an OSR central and resolve some of the issues that now plague the movement and impedes recreating a community of gamers as existed in the past. Issues such as which core rules are to be used, how are tournaments and sanctioned games to be built and run. This organization (and there _has_ to be a better name than OSR Central) would preserve an old school ethos and rebuild a governing and sanctioning body. Supplements and expansions of the rules would have a place that could sanction them as "official". Gaming infrastructure would be provided for those within the community and once again they would be a part of something bigger than they are now. Note that TARGA took a step in this direction, but it's hard to gauge it's current success given the fact that TARGA is very "open" about what rule systems are used. It is perhaps too loose in defining the boundaries of its kingdom.
Our goal is to preserve the spirit of old Gygaxian Gaming, not to cobble together a gaming golem of a gaming shell. What was that magic he managed to summon into being with those first few books of swords and sorcery gaming? I'm curious if when Gary was forced out of D&D, and warned off Dangerous Journeys, into Lejendary Adventures if he managed to pass on the magic and wonder to his new creation? Having never read but a few passages I'm unable to judge. But I loved the small part I did read. Which makes me wonder if the magic resided with Gary and his mind and spirit.
AD&D was our game of choice, our foundation. Second edition came out post graduation and because several of us, myself included, joined the military right after school 2e never gained much traction with our group. We added ideas and created house rules from 2e, but never really played a straight 2e game. But to be honest, during this early post adolescence our gaming was weak to say the least. So for us gaming was always heavily house ruled and improvised AD&D 1e.
And back then, though the RPGA, conventions, tournament play and official TSR gaming sanction existed we involved ourselves little with all that. It was nice to know, however, that it was out there. It lent a sense of expansiveness and greater possibility to the gaming scene. We knew that we _could_ choose to get involved if we at some time felt disposed to. And as I look book now, I can see that we were not "ready" for that level. In Gary Gygax's book Role-Playing Mastery he delineates several levels of "mastery" of the game. Levels 14 to 17 he describes as follows
14. Play outside your groups campaigns frequently
15. Play in tournaments
16. Make yourself aware of the gaming community and contribute to it
17. Continue to learn and grow even after you achieve mastery
We had attained a rather respectable level of game mastery, but never really took it to the next level, in this case #14.
In the '80's and '90s AD&D and TSR reigned supreme. Even as TSR was hurtling towards bankruptcy the gaming community saw gaming as TSR. There were other games on the mamrket to be sure, and some were becoming quite big. The biggest contender of the time was probably GURPS from SJ Games. But the AD&D experience _was_ gaming.
And I suppose that, more than anything else, is why I love KODT so much. It places itself in a setting where one game reigns supreme as the shared world of 90% of the gaming community. Was this an illusion then? Am I nostalgic to the point of not seeing the reality that was? Is this description I've given some mythical Camelot of gaming never to be regained, exactly because it never was?
Or is there something to this feeling that seems to strike some chord within my heart and soul? And if such a chord can be struck does it not hint at some magic that can be regained, attained and experienced again? Is it not real if I can respond to it in my heart and soul? And even moreso if others can feel the same thing. And the entire OSR community shows that there was something in the past worth retaining.
I wonder if it can be rebuilt among the longtime steadfast games of AD&D who today live in the realms of the OSR. We could create an OSR central and resolve some of the issues that now plague the movement and impedes recreating a community of gamers as existed in the past. Issues such as which core rules are to be used, how are tournaments and sanctioned games to be built and run. This organization (and there _has_ to be a better name than OSR Central) would preserve an old school ethos and rebuild a governing and sanctioning body. Supplements and expansions of the rules would have a place that could sanction them as "official". Gaming infrastructure would be provided for those within the community and once again they would be a part of something bigger than they are now. Note that TARGA took a step in this direction, but it's hard to gauge it's current success given the fact that TARGA is very "open" about what rule systems are used. It is perhaps too loose in defining the boundaries of its kingdom.
Our goal is to preserve the spirit of old Gygaxian Gaming, not to cobble together a gaming golem of a gaming shell. What was that magic he managed to summon into being with those first few books of swords and sorcery gaming? I'm curious if when Gary was forced out of D&D, and warned off Dangerous Journeys, into Lejendary Adventures if he managed to pass on the magic and wonder to his new creation? Having never read but a few passages I'm unable to judge. But I loved the small part I did read. Which makes me wonder if the magic resided with Gary and his mind and spirit.
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